If it bubbles and smells nice…
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These sourdough making and bread baking tips aim to help you with your sourdough bread baking. Maybe you have your sourdough starter culture ready and active. If not, please check out our tutorial on how to make your own sourdough culture in easy steps.
- Time is your friend, time means taste. And compared to yeast based breads you will need much more of it for the dough to properly develop. So, do not make sourdough bread when you are in a hurry, it takes as long as it takes!
- Do not be discouraged if your first sourdough bake is not perfect. This is perfectly normal. Like with all baking you need to learn and get to understand your dough and its quirks in combination with your surroundings, your material and ingredients. Lots of factors that need to come together.
- Start with a good basic sourdough recipe like our Pain Naturel. When this goes well you can get creative. Make the recipe at least a few times as described before changing anything…get to know the recipe and get a feel for the dough.
- Every sourdough culture is a bit different, some take 2 hours to proof your bread, some take 4 hours. So bake a few times to get a feeling of your sourdough culture it may be different from ours.
- Even if your sourdough loaf is not perfect and maybe a bit flat, do not throw it away. Most of the time it will still be very edible!
- You will see a lot of different names for the same thing in recipes in books and on the internet; sourdough, culture, starter, barm, sauerteig, kultur, desem etc. It all means the same; a mixture of water and flour fully alive with wild yeast and good bacteria. Do not be confused, it all works the same! The biggest difference will be the amount of water and the type of flour.
Some basic tips to start with…
Taking care of your sourdough culture
A good sourdough bread can only be made with a sourdough culture that’s alive and kicking. So make absolutely sure:
- You take good care of your starter by refreshing it regularly. When a starter gets too sour the acid stops the yeast from growing and making bubbles. By refreshing you give your starter new food to eat and you dilute the acid environment so the yeast comes back to live again.
- When you do not use your starter for a few days or it is a hot day / week you can store it in the fridge for up to three weeks before it needs refreshing again.
- Your culture smells nice! Your starter should smell fresh and fruity, reminding you of things like blueberries (with rye) and yoghurt and citrus (with wheat). If this smell changes to something resembling nail polish it is definitely time to feed your starter. If the polish smell does not go away…we are sorry but we think it is time to start all over again!
- You stir your starter to help add oxygen to it. The ‘nail polish’ bacteria do not like oxygen but the yeast and the good bacteria like oxygen.
- You use the right flour to feed your culture. Organic whole grain wheat and rye and spelt will work best because these grains will have enough yeast spores to keep your culture going.
- You use the right water too. A sourdough culture does not like chlorine, so if your tap water has too much of it, use bottled water.
- Any signs of fluffy stuff and strange colors on your culture. Something moved in that does not belong. Throw it away and start again!
As long as your sourdough culture is not red, blue, green or black, doesn’t stink so foul you want to run away from it or is growing fluffy hair you can rest assured it is alive and well!
Why do we maintain such a small amount of starter?
We work with a two step system. When using a preferment (like a poolish or a biga) we use about 15-20 grams of sourdough for a sourdough loaf like our whole wheat levain and pain naturel. With this small amount of sourdough you create a fully active sourdough preferment overnight which you then use to build the final dough. This way you can keep a small starter and still have the full sourdough flavor. Big advantage for home and hobby bakers is you are wasting far less precious flour when refreshing your culture than you would maintaining a big one!
Example: You bake 2 loaves each week. With our method you only have to maintain about 50 grams of sourdough. If you decide to skip baking this week, using our method, refreshing means throwing away only about 30 grams of sourdough. With the other-big-starter-method refreshing means throwing away 200 to 400 grams of culture depending on the recipe! Plus with this method you always need to refresh your starter before baking because the gluten weaken and you would otherwise have all this flour in your dough. With our method, you add the small amount of culture to a fresh batch of flour and so you will not have this problem of weakened gluten in your culture.
More sour please!
There are two main acids produced in a sourdough culture ― lactic acid and acetic acid. Acetic acid, or vinegar, is the acid that gives sourdough much of its sour taste. The lactic acid gives more of a mild yoghurt type of sourness. Giving acetic acid-producing organisms optimal conditions to multiply will yield a culture with more sour notes. Here are some tips to get more sour in your sourdough:
- Maintain your starter at a lower hydration level (more thick paste like consistency). Lactic acid-producing organisms like a wet environment whereas acetic acid is produced more abundantly in a drier environment.
- Refrigerating the culture also slows down the yeast activity and lets the bacteria dominate and produce more sour acids.
- Working oxygen into the starter by mixing during feedings should also promote more acetic-acid sourness.
- Acid-producing bacteria like whole grain flours, so use more of them.
- Try to achieve a longer, slower rise. This may mean you’ll need to create a cooler rather than a warmer environment. You can let the dough rise in a cool place or use the fridge to further retard the dough rising process.
- Sourness also comes with age. If your culture is still very young it may need to ripen a bit more to show its full potential.
Recipe suggestion for a sourdough with more sour tang:
San Francisco Sourdough Bread
No Knead Soft Sourdough Rolls
Less sour please!
Don’t want the acidity to hit you full in the face? Stick to these tips to aim for less sour in your sourdough loaf:
- Maintain your starter at a higher hydration level (more yoghurt consistency) and feed / refresh it (more) regularly. This helps to minimize the alcohol content which will help reduce the overall acidity of the sourdough.
- Acid-producing bacteria like whole grain flours, so use less of them and more (finer / white) bread flour.
- Keep your culture at room temperature. The best environment for the yeast and lactobacilli to prosper, but feed regularly!.
- Try to speed up proofing times. You can play with temperatures and amounts of culture added.
- We have found that the sourness depends on the ripeness of the preferment. This means that using an under-ripe poolish gives you the flavor advantages but not the added sourness.
- For a subtle hint of sour and wonderful crust and crumb and a speedier process, check out some of our hybrid bread recipes. They combine the best of sourdough and yeast. Our pain rustique recipe is a good example.
Recipe suggestion for a loaf with less sour tang:
Sourdough Pain Naturel
Sourdough Mini Boules
Starters are like children!
You cannot neglect them or leave them alone for too long plus they are unpredictable. They are all different with their own characteristics and quirky traits.
This is why, despite all the tips given, it can still be that your own culture is a mild and gentle type, never capable of producing a super sour loaf, or the other way around. If all else fails or you are not happy with your results, start a new or second culture and give it another go.
Play with these tips, try different cultures and flours (rye, wheat, spelt) and recipes and see what comes out. It’s all part of the wonderful journey to your ultimate sourdough bread!
Escafon says
Hi Weekendbakers,
Thanks again for this informative article! I am again starting a sourdoughculture, a bit Italian style. It came up quick, within 48 hours at roomtemperature. But now I have a question, It seems to devour the gluten at a very high speed, making the easyest dough I could think of (60% hydratation) within a matter of hours to a very sticky allmost batterlike mass. It smells allright and tastes ok, though a bit more sour than my previous one it rises allso rather slow.
Is this “biological liquefaction” as I call it for the moment a normal phenomenon which normalises within a couple of weeks, or should I start again from scratch knowing that it doesn’t take a lot of work or money to make a new one?
Weekend Bakers says
How and when did you feed and refresh it?
Zoe says
Hello! Thank you for all of your information. I started my first starter years ago based on your recipe and though I’ve had to make new starters at times, it has allowed me to make my sourdough rye bread every other week for years. I do neglect my starter and sometimes forget to feed it for over a week and recently it went moldy when I did my first preferment. Then I tried another one and that went moldy too. So I threw out the starter. That one had lasted the longest, maybe 9 months.
Now with 2 new batches I’m getting mold on day 4 of trying to grow a new starter.
I’ve had this problem before and I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong. Organic rye flour, filtered water, room temp is around high 60’s to 70F. Trying to use clean spoons, jar. Any thoughts?
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Zoe,
The only tip we can give you is to buy a new sack of flour or even a different brand and start all over. It could be something in the bag or even the whole batch of flour.
Hope you will succeed the next time!
Kathe says
Hello,
Thank you for the starter recipe. I would like to make a sourdough rye loaf that does not contain any wheat flour. Or at least very little. Is there a recipe available for 100% rye sourdough bread using your sourdough starter? Thank you for your time and effort.
Regards,
Kathe
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Kathe,
We have a great rye recipe, but it needs some adaptation to make it 100% rye and 100% sourdough. Adapting it to 100% rye is easy as you will see. The recipe uses a small amount of yeast in the final dough. You can leave it out, but need to at least double and maybe triple the resting and proofing times for the bread to develop on the final day. The recipe mentions this too. See: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…h-raisins/
Happy rye bread baking!
Marieke & Ed
Rob Mitchell says
Hi Weekend bakers from a recent convert!
Just thought I’d mention the Nail polish/acetone character may be no problem at all (as long as you bread doesn’t smell that way)
Its actually normal for many strains of yeast and acetic acid bacteria to produce these compounds. Ethyl acetate is a normal part of wine fermentation, usually produced by most yeast during the initial log phase growth. Acetone is produced by yeast under stress. Acetic acid bacteria often produce a mix of acetic acid and ethyl acetate.
My strain always smells like nail polish remover when I take the mother out of the fridge, but it produces marvellous bread without fail. As soon as you add fresh flour the smell goes away (so its most likely acetone from stressed hungry yeast)
Regards,
Rob
ps I make my poolish (500g 1:1) using 125g starter (3:2 flour to water) and move my mother to a fresh container about once a month to stop things growing in the crusty stuff on the sides of the container!
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Rob,
Thank you for sharing these insights with us. The way you describe it we almost feel sorry for the yeast, all stressed and hungry! Everybody develops their own favorite method over time and to be honest we do like the smell of blueberries better than that of acetone, but in the end what matters is the baked result.
Happy feeding and baking!
JB says
Thank you all the great information on sourdough! Your website has the best instructions on sourdough, so far that I have found, and am enjoying experimenting with it. I have a question: is there a good recipe to make soft pretzels made with sourdough? Thanks and gratitude!
Weekend Bakers says
Hello JB,
Thank you for your very kind comment. We are sorry we do not (yet) have any experience with making soft pretzels. We think this site might have some useful info for you: www.thefreshloaf.com/recipes/pretzels
Happy baking!
Marieke & Ed
Zainub Farooqi says
Most recipes call for 1 – 2 cups of starter, but I only have 1/2 cup of starter that I’m maintaining. What should I do?
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Zainub,
It is very easy to make more starter, but it is a shame to maintain too much because then you also have to throw away more. That is why, as we describe above in the article, we work with a two step system. When using a preferment (like a poolish or a biga) we use about 15-20 grams of sourdough for a sourdough loaf like our whole wheat levain and pain naturel. With this small amount of sourdough you create a fully active sourdough preferment overnight which you then use to build the final dough.
To go back to your cups: Just add the extra 1/2 cup (or cup), wait one night and use the following day in your recipe.
Milton says
My starter is only 2 days old and it has doubled in size even before 12 hours of refreshing
Should I refresh every 12 hours? And at that rate of growth when will it be ready?
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Milton,
yes, keep going, your starter needs at least 5 to 7 days old for your bacteria and yeast colonies to stabilize. The rate of growth will probably slow down a bit as your starter matures.
Good luck with it!
Hugh Robertson says
Hi Ella,
Love your site – I have a baking issue.
When I slash my loaves the cuts seem to re-seal when baking and the load cracks somewhere else! It still tastes great and the internal structure and crust are nice, the loaves just look wobbly
thx
Hugh
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Hugh,
If you score deeper and at the right angle you should see better results. See our tips on the subject here: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…onfidence/
Happy baking and scoring,
Ed & Marieke
Weekend Bakers
Yvonne Gregg says
Hi,
I’ve really enjoyed reading all about sourdough on your website. The instructions are so clear and easy. I received a sourdough course for my birthday and am now hooked. After only a couple of failures we now eat our own bread and don’t have to buy any.
We live in Qneensland Australia and it’s winter so things will change in our humid summer and Inwill have to adjust how I make my bread according to the temperatures.
It’s all fun.
Thanks again, Yvonne.
Ella says
I make sourdough for our family in outback nsw and during summer I have to feed it at least 3 times a day to prevent mould and have it in the coolest part of the house, but it’s doable!
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Yvonne,
Thanks for your excellent comment. Maybe our tips on dough temperature will come in handy too: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…mperature/
Happy baking in OZ!
Ed & Marieke
Zeina says
Hello thank you for your tips!
Quick question about maintaining the starter and using it for a poolish: if a recipe calls for about 15g of starter, and I am looking to refresh my starter after using that amount, do I add 15 g of fresh flour + 15 g of water?
I should then wait for about 12-24 hours before storing it in the fridge, correct?
Thanks!
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Zeina,
If you take 15 grams from your starter, and you want to get it back to the same amount as before, you should add 15 grams (so that would be around 7.5 g water and 7.5 g flour). But these are very small amounts of course. For a good and active culture we advice to maintain a jar of around 100 grams and take what you need from that and replenish to the amount of 100 grams again.
And yes, wait for 24 hours and then store in the fridge.
Good luck with it!
Travis says
Thanks for the awesome tips. Here’s the best thing I’ve learned as a novice sourdough enthusiast:
When you feed your starter, it will start to fluff up over time. If you take the starter when it is at its peak expansion, and then incorporate it into the bread recipe, you will get a more sour flavor. I had been taking starter sometimes 12 hours after feeding and I find this is past the best point. It’s better to grab the starter a few hours after feeding when it is at its bubbliest, most expansive stage. That’s my two cents. What do you think?
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Travis,
It is great you discovered this from your own experience. Anything that works for you is very valid of course. We have not noticed this or payed close attention to this for our starter culture. Normally we always use the two step method described above, but we always make sure our preferments are alive and kicking when using them.
Susan Hodges says
Hi Marieke and Ed,
Hope you are both keeping well.
Is it correct to say that if i want to maintain 60g of starter, I KEEP 20g of the old starter in the jar and feed it with 20g of rye and 20g of warer?
I do not bake very often and think that. 60g of starter is enough.
After leaving it in the fridge for 2-3 weeks, do I need to discard and feed it everytime (the day before?) I need to use it? For how many days do I need to feed and discard before using a starter that has been left in the fridge for a while. I like my bread a bit sour than normal.
Thanks,
Susan
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Susan,
Thank you, still baking and loving it!
Your description is exactly right. You can do it this way, no problem. Yes, discard and feed the day before, one time is enough, also after leaving it in the fridge for three weeks. In our experience this works fine. If it doesn’t bounce up lively however, you can refresh it a second time.
Happy sourdough baking!
Ed & Marieke
Susan Hodges says
Thank you for your reply.
Susan
Jeff Alley says
Hello! Thanks for the great resource.
I have been nursing my very first Rye starter for the past 10 days, and just made my first loaf today (your ‘pain natural’). My bread has good flavor, but was a bit dense. Any suggestions to get a bit more of an airy, less dense interior? Thanks again!
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Jeff,
Try to proof to perfection and make sure your dough has the right temperature when proofing (however there is a limit to how much your dough can take, so it can be under-proofed but also over-proofed!). It takes a while and some practice to recognize this. See the tips at the bottom of this article: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…e-in-size/
Temperature also plays an important role when it comes to your oven, using steam and baking. See our tips here: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…your-oven/
Happy sourdough baking!
Martijn says
Dear Ed & Marieke
I’m trying to make a rye sourdough starter according to your method.
The first attempt kicked off really nicely, developing a nice blueberry odor!
After several days, the activity went dead, and several more days later (with refreshing and everything) a foul smell was coming from the starter, so decided to retry.
Second batch got contaminated pretty early in the process (day 2) and grew mouldy.
A new bag of wholewheat rye flour was bought, and another starter was made.
At day 2, it was booming with life, but not really developing a nice smell.
The day after, a strong smell of ethyl acetate (the nail-polish smell you refer to, an ester of ethanol and acetic acid) was present.
The starter though, was alive and kickin’
I am now at day 8, and even though there is still a strong smell of ethyl acetate, the starter doubles in size within 12 hours.
A second starter from the new bag of flour was started on day 2, and is developing the same smell.
I always refresh after roughly 24 hours.
Can I use this starter, or is it better to start over again? And how to prevent the ethyl acetate from forming…
P.S.
The last few days, I noticed that my starters mainly rise from the bottom, the top part stays rather inactive.
Because of the height of the jar, it is difficult to stir the starter properly, and get the already active culture mixed in with the new flour and water. To solve this, I first add water and stir it with the active culture until homogeneous, and then stir flour through it.
It seems to help a lot, since now my entire starter is active.
This by the way, has nothing to do with the ethyl acetate smell, it is just a side note and tip to get a really homogeneous starter pretty easily.
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Martijn,
Did you not get rid of the smell with the actions you describe under PS? It seems that that could have been part of the problem. As you can read above: stir your starter to help add oxygen to it. The ‘nail polish’ bacteria do not like oxygen but the yeast and the good bacteria like oxygen.
Sometimes it can also be the case that ‘something nasty’ is lurking in the flour you bought and the only thing to do then is to buy a fresh bag of flour and indeed start over again.
Tinika says
Could you please explain to me what Poolish and Biga are? I am very new and have my first Rye starter ready to go! It’s a 40 year old one I sent away for. It’s bubbled up well and has doubled in size on day 5
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Tinika,
Biga and poolish are terms for pre-ferments used in Italian and French baking. Poolish is a fairly wet sponge (typically made with a one-part-flour-to-one-part-water ratio by weight), while biga is usually drier. You can read more about it in our posting about the subject: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…lish-biga/
Happy baking!
Lim See Tua says
Hi!
Thanks for all the useful tips.
i have been baking sourdough bread with limited success. Recently I tried proofing the dough in a banneton. When I turned out the risen dough to bake, it collapsed and would not rise again in the oven. Did I proof the dough too long? Should I have baked it after it had risen twice in volume and not more?
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Lim,
Without seeing your dough, yes, it would be very well possible that your dough was ‘over the top’ and collapsed. Make sure the dough has the right temperature in combination with the proofing times and also make sure you use the right (strong enough, high in protein) flour so the dough has some strength.
Also see our tips on how to judge your bread is ready for the oven: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…e-in-size/
Good luck and happy baking!
Susan says
Hi Ed and Marieke,
Just wanted to wish you both a merry Christmas and a happy new year, and to thank you for your kindness and
Generosity in helping and teaching us and for sharing your recipes and tips and tricks on breAd making.
All the best to you both.
Susan
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Susan,
Wishing you and your family a very merry Christmas and happy and healthy 2016.
And have you seen we started our Panettone project?! www.weekendbakery.com/posts…e-project/
Marieke & Ed
Susan says
Yes, I have and it sounds great. You can rest assured that I will be trying out the panettone recipe soon.
I have just ordered one of your lame, as it looks so good.
Have a great day.
Susan
Susan says
Hi,
My SD starter is now quite strong, about 3 weeks old.
Can you advise me how many grams of SD should I have in the jar at any given time.
Would I be right to say, for example, that If I have 50g of SD starter, i must, at the next feed, discard 30g of starter, and then feed with 15g of flour and 15g of water, so that the total in the jar is again 50g. The weight of what comes out must go in?
I have at the moment a jar containing 120g of starter in the fridge which needs feeding.
Can you please tell me how much to discard and how much to feed. I am likely to bake 1-3 loaves a week.
Do I need to store so much starter? How much should I discard and feed?
I have made my starter using your excellent rye recipe.
Thank you.
Susan
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Susan,
If you want to bake 3 loaves per week you need about 45 grams of sourdough. We would advice to keep a jar of around 90 grams (less gets a bit fiddly and this way your culture has more stability). We advice to discard or use 2/3 of the culture to refresh it so you would need 30 water and 30 flour to get back up to 90 grams again.
Susan says
Hi,
Thank you for your reply. I am sorry but I am a bit dim. Am I right to say that if I were ti discard 2/3 of my 120g of old starter, I would have 40g left in the jar [2/3 of 120 = 80g to be discarded]. I then feed with 30g new rye and 30g water, leaving 100g in the jar [40+30+30]. This will be how I should maintain my SD starter. So at any given time, I will have 100g to use, and then replenish.
Thanks,
Susan
Elaine says
Sometimes I feed my sourdough starter with a ripe banana or a mango. It seems to sweeten the starter. Have you experimented with that? I’m not an expert, but it seems to work for me when the dough gets too sour. So far, I haven’t noticed a problem; but…Question: Do you see any problem with introducing fruit into the culture?
Thanks for your website!
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Elaine,
No, we have not experimented with fruit in our culture but we have heard about it of course. So, no experience to share with you but if it smells nice and gives you great baking results than it should be OK to use it. Our own culture yields breads that are never too sour, it is very subtle, so till now there is no need to sweeten it. But it would be an interesting experiment of course.
Happy sourdough baking,
Ed & Marieke
Conor says
Hi guys!!!
Love the site!! I’ve tried many of the recipes and love them. A quick question though. I’ve made the rye sourdough starter as per your instructions and it’s turned out great, but if I use less starter in my preferment will it give me a more sour taste? I currently use 60g of sourdough culture in my preferment for 2loaves because I don’t like throwing away half of it just for refreshing. Is this too much culture to use??
Thanks and keep up the good work!!!
Conor
Weekend Bakers says
If less starter means longer proofing times than yes you potentially get more sour. But as you can see in the article above, you get the sour taste from a combination of factors. If the recipe you are using gives you good results then we suggest you stick to the 60 g. It is very hard to say what is enough or too much, because every culture is different, some are more active than others etc. You should not be afraid to experiment a bit with quantities and times and see where it leads you in terms of optimum taste for you.
Nina King says
Hello there!
Your website has answered one of my questions – how to get a more sour bread. However, I have another : how do I get my bread just a bit lighter? We love the denseness of sourdough bread but mine is a bit heavier than I would like. We live in southeast Iowa. I thought the geological location might make a difference. You know – different yeast spores & such.
Thank you.
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Nina,
We would suggest you let the bread proof for longer, it might be the case your bread was not proofed to the optimum before bringing it to the oven. Sometimes you even have to over-proof ad bread to learn where this optimum is. Have you tried our pain naturel recipe? www.weekendbakery.com/posts…n-naturel/ You might find it to your liking when looking for something a bit lighter. Also check your temperatures in combination with proofing times: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…mperature/
Happy sourdough baking!
Lucas Lambers says
This is the only website that I’ve found other than the article on sourdough bread on Wikipedia that actually specifies and clarifies that the sourness in sourdough bread largely comes from the acetic acid, not the lactic acid, and that cooler temperatures increase the production of acetic acid, while higher temperatures increase the production of lactic acid. The confusion about this issue is endless online!
Jane says
I love your conclusion ” starter are like children”.
in fact, I am not good at cook , but I find the courage to try to do something with your nice recipe.
Thank you very much for this contribution !
Chloe says
Hi Marieke and Ed,
I hope you’re both well.
I have been using the big-starter-method and as I don’t like wasting loads of flour, I’d like to switch to your method of keeping a small amount in the fridge, and then use this to make the poolish for baking. I wondered if you have a way to work out how much culture to use to get the amount of starter needed? For example, if a recipe says I need 200g starter for a loaf, how much culture, water and flour should I use?
Thank you for your help!
Chloe
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Chloe, as a rule we use about 8 to 10 grams of culture for each loaf within the starter. So to get to a starter of 200g, use 10g of culture on 95g flour and 95g water and keep this for about 10 to 12 hours at room temperature in a covered bowl. Happy baking!
r rehkemper says
Hello Marieke & Ed
I am sorry if this sounds stupid, but don’t you need to feed the starter with more amounts of “food” then there is starter?
For example, if you start off with 90 grams of leftover starter and you want to arrive at the 120 starter for the week, I have been taking about 52 grams of starter and refresh it with 34 g of water & 34 grams of rye. I think that is not correct. I think for the 24 hour ferment, one would need more h2o & water to feed that amount of starter. Maybe I should throw away a greater amount of starter and feed it higher amounts of rye & h2o. Am I correct with this assumption? (Should I try 30 grams of starter and feed it 45gr rye & 45gr h2o?)
Thanks for your help.
Renee
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Renee, to be honest I do not really know how much flour and water in grams I use to feed my starter. I just ‘guess’ the amount of water and flour to get a nice consistency. It is not a very exact science, so do go with your gut feeling. I just fill the jar for 2/3 with water on top of the ‘old’ sourdough, I stir a bit to get the whole sourdough to a watery consistency. Then I throw away 2/3 so the jar is still filled with 1/3 of this ‘sourdough water’. Then I add a couple of scopes of rye flour and stir until it resembles a paste. That’s it! But you are right, you should add more new flour in comparison to the ‘old’ sourdough. Happy baking!
rr rehkemper says
Thank you Marieke & Ed 🙂
Lee duPlan says
Finally got a decent starter, third time lucky, glad I persevered, best bread yet. Even my wife who is very picky about her bread, loves it.
Thank you
Weekend Bakers says
Great to hear Lee. Hope it will have a long and healthy life, it will hopefully get even better as it matures. What more motivation do you need to bake, hearing your loved ones say they love your bread. Excellent!
Happy baking,
Ed & Marieke
Jasper says
Hey Bakkers!
Als ik een zuurdesem maak dan blijven er altijd ‘restanten’ aan de randen/zijkanten van de pot aan de binnenkant zitten. Dit is niet te voorkomen. Dit heeft de neiging om snel te gaan schimmelen. Wat is hier aan te doen?
Weekend Bakers says
Hoi Jasper, wij hebben zelf het probleem niet van het schimmelen van de rand-resten. Na 1 dag op de keukentafel rijzen / ontwikkelen bewaren wij het zuurdesem in de koelkast voor maximum 1 week. Wij bakken minimaal 1 keer per week dus de desem wordt ook door ons minimaal 1 maar per week ververst.
r rehkemper says
Hello Marieke & Ed
I was wondering if you keep a very small portion of “Mother Starter”, in the refrigerator that you refresh weekly just like you would refresh the regular starter for the weekly bread? I am thinking of a back-up just in case 🙂
Thanks so very much,
Renee in Chicago
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Renee, we keep all our sourdough starter in the fridge during the week. I refresh my starter after bakingin the weekend, let it rise for 24 hours than store in the fridge. The day before baking I take it out of the fridge, make my poolish and the cycle repeats!
Esther says
Hoi Ed & Marieke, wat een fijne site hebben jullie! Ik probeer de beginselen van het zuurdesem onder de knie te krijgen. Het maken van een actieve desem is goed gelukt. Ik heb er nu twee staan, 1 met 60% hydratatie en 1 met 100% hydratatie. Wat ik nog niet helemaal begrijp is het “onderhoud” van het desem: die met 100% hydratatie staat nu na de maakfase van 7 dagen in de koelkast (nu 4 dagen). Als ik hem wil voeden moet ik hem dan tijdelijk buiten de koelkast laten om weer actief te worden of kun je hem voeden en weer terug zetten? En als je wilt bakken met een desem uit de koelkast, moet je hem dan de dag tevoren weer wakker maken?
Ik hoop dat jullie mij kunnen helpen! Alvast reuze bedankt!
Groeten Esther
Weekend Bakers says
Hallo Esther,
Ja , dat klopt. Als je de cultuur gevoed hebt wacht je ongeveer 12 uur zodat deze weer kan groeien en actief kan worden en daarna zet je je potje pas in de koelkast (dus goed kijken dat je cultuur eerst weer verdubbeld). Ververs je desem minimaal elke drie weken als je het in de koelkast bewaart, dus ook als je niet bakt. Als je het wilt gebruiken haal het dan inderdaad één dag voor gebruik uit de koelkast. Als het langer dan een week in de koelkast heeft gestaan moet je het ook eerst verversen voor je het de volgende dag gaat gebruiken.
Hoop dat het zo duidelijk is.
Veel bakplezier en een lang en actief leven voor je desem!
Groetjes,
Marieke
Misty Hogue says
I’ve attempted the rye starter 2 times now, both failed to make it past day 3. They more than doubled in size after day 2 feeding then shrank before 3rd feeding. After discarding 2/3 of starter and adding 40 gr. water and rye, stirring and waiting 24 hours, there are no bubbles and no life.. And smell isn’t very pleasant either. Any ideas? I’m using bobs red mill organic rye, and San Francisco tap water… Which I use for my other no knead breads without any problems. Any feedback would be great. Love your website!
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Misty,
If it smells really bad (and not fruity, yogurty or like beer) we can only advise you to throw it away and start again with a clean jar and preferably with a new bag of flour. Sometimes there can be something in the flour (also check the date on the bag, make sure it is fresh) or you might have caught something in the culture that does not belong there.
Do not give up, a lot of people need a few attempts to get started.
Good luck and good (baking) Sunday!
Paul Loopuyt says
Hi Ed & Marieke,
I found a nice solution for the throwing-away-part of making sourdough. (I hate to throw things away and pancakes every week is just too much) In Polish and Czech cooking they make very interesting soups from it: żurek and kyselo.
I don’t know if or where to post the recipes. When you would like me to share them, let me know.
Love, Paul
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Paul,
That sounds really intriguing and I understand about the pancakes! Do you have a link to these recipes so maybe we can give the information as part of this posting? If you prefer to mail it to us that is very good too of course.
Happy baking and sourdough soup cooking,
Marieke
Priscilla says
Thank you for the wonderful article. I have a question. My husband has decided to use the whole starter into the bread dough and the take out a ladleful after the first proof. This is instead of our biweekly feed in the jar. So he pours all the starter into the flour, adds water, kneads it, proofs, then takes out a bit to put into the jar and sets aside, then adds the salt, if using, does the second proof. The starter in the jar is put in the fridge until the next bread is made. Which is about 3 or4 days later. Will it affect the strength of the starter if he renews it like that rather than feed it in the normal way?
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Priscilla,
Your husband uses a method that has been used by artisan bakers for many years. It is called the old dough technique, except the baker uses a leftover piece of dough of the previous baking day (including salt). So what he is doing is not wrong in any way as there is not really any right or wrong in bread baking, especially when it is working for you and generating good loaves. However, keeping and feeding a starter is used more often by bakers as this seems to keep your sourdough culture more stable and pure and less prone to contamination (for example you have touched the dough with your hands and then leave it for several days). Also the gluten structure in a wheat sourdough weakens a lot during a few days, so you are basically adding dough with a lot of weak gluten to your dough which could effect the end result.
Hope this helps. Happy baking to your husband.
Ed & Marieke
Robert Voss says
On the subject of chlorine in tap water, there is another alternative for those who would rather not buy bottled water. Chlorine in tap water is unstable. If you fill an uncovered jar (any size) with tap water, the chlorine will dissipate overnight. If your tap water contains fluorine/floride or chloramine (your water dept. can tell you this) you will need an activated charcoal filter to get rid of those.
Weekend Bakers says
Thank you very much Robert, for these very useful tips. Indeed a very good alternative for many people we are sure!
polly says
hello there. i could not see a 100% sourdough rye recipe on your website… do you have one? this is my favourite type of bread…. would love to bake it well.. for now though i’m just learning and trying things out (and getting things wrong!) – would be great to have some of your clear guidance. wonderful website 🙂
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Polly,
We do have a suggestion for you. You could try our 3 stage rye bread. (see: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…h-raisins/) It has a tiny amount of yeast to speed up the process on baking day, but you could leave that out and expand the proofing time (probably double). It is a very delicious bread.
Happy baking and experimenting!
Marieke & Ed
Richina says
BEste Marieke,
Fantastisch artikel! Je nieuwe desem doet het weer fantastisch. Een bedorven desem stinkt inderdaad verschrikkelijk, die van mij had zelfs groene spikkels. Ik ververste de laatste tijd met roggebloem in plaats van roggemeel. Misschien dat dat mee heeft gespeeld.
Groeten en fijne feestdagen van Richina
Weekend Bakers says
Hoi Richina,
Heel interessant om te horen. In roggebloem zullen door het uitmalen waarschijnlijk ook minder wilde gisten aanwezig zijn en misschien krijgen andere beestjes zo ook meer kans zich te ontwikkelen. Onze trouwe eko roggemeel van de molen blijft het fantastisch doen..ik zou zeggen in ieder geval terug naar het meel. Maar heel soms gaat er gewoon wat mis. En groene spikkels…dat is meteen hupsakee weg ermee en opnieuw beginnen! Geen risico.
Hoop dat het weer snel naar bosbesjes ruikt!
Happy baking en een heel fijne kerst!
Ed & Marieke