Our trusty, fruity rye sourdough starter culture
Klik hier voor de Nederlandse versie
A lot has been written about sourdough starter cultures. You can find long and elaborate articles on how to make your own starter while using things like pineapple and grapes. They are almost mythical creatures to be treated with the utmost care and fed every evening at the same time while standing on your head. The truth is much simpler. My rye starter seems almost indestructible. And the only thing I did is mix some whole grain rye flour with water and wait…
What is a starter?
A starter is a piece of dough which contains wild yeast and bacteria which you use to make your bread. The wild yeast produce carbon dioxide (and a bit of alcohol too) to make your bread airy. It is the bacteria that can give your bread the sour taste, this is because the bacteria transform the starch of the flour into lactic acid, acetic acid and alcohol. Both the acid and the alcohol give sourdough bread their unique and interesting taste. You add an amount of your starter to a larger amount of flour and water mixture like you normally use commercial yeast to a poolish or a biga preferment. It works just the same only slower. Commercial yeasts are selected and bred for speed by the big yeast companies but wild yeast works at a slower pace. This is why bread recipes for sourdough bread tend to take much longer and consist of more steps.
Why a rye starter culture?
For my sourdough baking I use a culture which is made with 100% whole rye flour. A sourdough culture based on rye flour is easier to maintain, it does not go into a slurry like a wheat flour starter when you forget about it, it is easier to stir because it has almost no gluten and it smells very very nice, a bit like fruit. It is also very forgiving in the amount you feed it. You feed your culture after baking to replenish your stock. Normally I only feed it once a week, after my weekend baking, I just give it a few table spoons of water and rye flour, stir and ready!
The birth of a new starter culture
Before starting your own culture
First thing: work clean! Use a clean jar and always use clean spoons to stir and add flour to the mixture. The organisms living on your hands can contaminate your starter and spoil it! Throw away your starter and start over when it develops an awful smell or grows moldy in whichever color, it probably has picked up a bad bacteria in the first feeble stages of the starters life.
After some research I found that the most likely truth of the source of the yeast and bacteria is the flour itself. The yeast and bacteria live on the outside of the grain (just like the yeast to make wine lives on the skin of the grapes). This is why you need (preferably organic) whole grain rye flour, because you need the outside bran of the grain as a source of yeast and bacteria.
I start with a relative wet starter and when the starter is alive add more flour to maintain a more stiff starter. I start with a small amount of water and flour as not to waste too much flour, because you have to throw halve of the starter away with each refresh. When your starter is alive and kicking you always can scale up the size of your starter simply by adding more water and rye flour.
Be sure to use water which does not contain chlorine. Water companies sometimes add a little chlorine to your tap water to kill all bacteria and probably also the yeast in the water, so it is not a good idea to use this for building a sourdough starter. If in doubt you can use bottled water.
And now on with the easy steps!
Day 1: Take a small clean jar (I use a 400ml jam jar) and add 40ml of water and 40g of whole grain rye flour, stir with a clean spoon for 30 seconds. Draw a line to mark the height of the mixture with a permanent marker on the jar so you can see any activity easily. Loosely close the lit of the jar and store at room temperature (about 20-21 degrees Celcius) out of direct sunlight for 24 hours.
Stirring the mixture every 3 to 4 hours for 10 seconds helps distribute the flour, yeast and bacteria and aerates the mixture which helps development.
Day 2: If you are lucky you should see some little bubbles of air in the mixture. The smell of the mixture at this stage is not very nice, a bit musty but not totally off putting. Add 20ml of water and 20g of whole grain rye flour. Stir with a clean spoon for 30 seconds. Draw a new mark line if needed. Loosely close the lit of the jar and store at room temperature out of direct sunlight for 24 hours. Stirring the mixture 2 or 3 times a day for 10 seconds helps distribute the flour, yeast and bacteria and aerates the mixture which helps development.
Some bubbles are visible after 24 hours – It’s alive, its alive…
Day 3: Your mixture should now be getting active. Mine did more than double in size during the last 24 hours. If your mixture is not very active yet, throw away half of the mixture and repeat the directions of day 2 again. The smell of your mixture should be a little nicer at this stage. When your mixture is active, throw away two third of the mixture and add 30ml of water and 30g of whole grain rye flour, stir with a clean spoon for 30 seconds and store at room temperature. Stir the mixture 2 or 3 times a day for 10 seconds.
This is called refreshing or feeding your starter. By throwing out part of your mixture and adding new rye flour you give the starter fresh food (the rye flour) to work on, so all your new yeast and bacteria can get ‘stronger’ and multiply again. You also dilute the alcohol and the acid they produce so the yeast and bacteria do not ‘poison’ themselves.
Day 4: Your starter should now be fully active and strong enough to double or triple in size during a 24 hours time period. We need to refresh it again before we can use this starter because the acid producing bacteria need more time to develop than the yeast. So throw away two third of the mixture and add 30ml of water and 30g of whole grain rye flour, stir with a clean spoon for 30 seconds and store at room temperature.
When your starter is not active repeat the steps of day 2 and 3 until it is getting active. Sometimes it just takes a few days longer, depending on flour, area and temperature. When at any stage your starter gets moldy, smells bad or you see colored spots on your starter which do not seem to belong there, you sadly have to start over as you probably picked up some bad guests.
The starter is now 36 hours old and has doubled or tripled over the past 12 hours after feeding
Day 5: Your starter should at least double in size consistently after each refreshment to be ready for your first baking project. If your culture does not double in size consistently after day 4 or 5 repeat the directions of day 4 until it does.
At this stage your starter should be developing a nice fruity smell during the next few days. You can now let your starter rest for a few days. After refreshing, I keep my starter on the counter for 12 to 24 hours, look for it to double in size and develop and then store it in the fridge. Mine developed a nice fruity tone on day 6 which got even nicer on day 7. Just keep using and maintaining the starter from now on, after a while the color of your starter should get a little bit more beige after it has doubled or tripled after a feeding (notice the difference in color of my old and new starter). This is a sign of maturation of the starter and the production of acid.
How to maintain your starter
A rye starter does not need much maintenance. We store our starter in the fridge. We bake (almost) every weekend so our starter is being refreshed at least each week. We keep about 120g of starter of which we use about 60g up to 100g each week. So after taking out the amount for baking, we just add water and rye flour and stir, so we have about 120g of starter again. We keep our starter quite stiff, almost like a thick paste. The reason for this is that it will develop a lot slower with less water, so it matures during the week and is ready for baking the next weekend.
After feeding we keep the starter on the kitchen table at room temperature (usually around 21C) for about 12 hours so it can develop and double or triple in size. When it has developed, we store it in the refrigerator until the next baking session. Always wait for your starter to at least double in size before storing it in the fridge, a starter should be fully developed before it can survive in the cold. A starter kept in the fridge should at least be refreshed every two weeks. A starter kept on your counter should be refreshed at least every three days.
If we want to bake, we take it out of our fridge and use it directly for a poolish or biga. Then refresh it, so it will be ready and active for our next baking session. That’s it!
And if for any reason you are not able to get your own culture started, it is possible to ‘kickstart’ the process by buying a packet of sourdough starter. We know that Kensington Sourdough, based in Toronto Canada, are sending their dried San Fransisco Sourdough Starter all over the world since quite a few years now and at a very reasonable price. They even have an offer for worldwide free shipping sometimes. Our baking friend Ben, the owner is very knowledgeable about all things sourdough and has some good info on the subject too.
Best of luck to all sourdough bakers and whether you make your own from scratch or you kickstart the process with a bought culture, enjoy the process!
Small video clip timelaps of rise of rye sourdough starter
More sourdough tips to help you bake that perfect sourdough loaf! Plus some recipe suggestions.
Chris says
Hi Weekend Bakers!
Happy to let you know that both batches of starter are doing fine. One batch based on your WeekendBakery kick starter, the other made from scratch by me. The previous day there was not much development. Both batches are fed organic/ dynamic whole rye. There were bubbles but no real growth. I believed that it was simply not warm enough (17-18 Celsius). Even the warmest spot in the house could not stimulate enough growth. This morning the problem was solved thanks to Akke’s tip on using a Cool Box with a warm water bottle. Both jars are in “The Snug Bucket”, 🙂 the thing formerly known as Cooling Box together with a hot water bottle. A towel separates the jars with starter and the hot water bottle, in order to prevent overheating.
So thanx guys for maintaining this blog and attracting all these reactions, really helpfull for a sourdough newbie!
Greetings!
Chris
Weekend Bakers says
That all sounds marvelous Chris. Bit of DIY seems to do the trick for you.
Soon you will be a true sourdough proficient!
Marieke & Ed
Ivana says
Hi Marieke,
Your website and recipes are such an inspiration! I love your posts, recipes and tips and use them almost daily. I recently ran into some trouble with my rye starter and was wondering if you have any ideas about a possible solution you could share.
I had successfully made and used the rye sourdough starter according to your directions for over 2 years. About a month ago, mold appeared on top and the sides of it (white fuzzy stuff with brown specks), so I tossed it and started over again. I have since tried about 5 batches: they would bubble on day 2, more than double on day 3, have a bit less activity on day 4, but they consistently mold on day 5 after a regular daily feeding. I am completely puzzled! I use very good quality, organic rye flour from our local co-op, clean filtered water and keep everything sterilized. Any suggestions?
Thanks for your time!
~Ivana
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Ivana,
Thank you very much for liking our site and recipes.
We do have an idea about what is causing your culture problems. We have had it ourselves once. We think the problem could actually be in the bag of flour you are feeding the culture with. We have had one batch of rye flour that contained something ‘bad’ and after weeks of trying we came to the conclusion this could be the problem. We bought a new bag (same mill by the way) and started over and we were back in business. For reasons that are hard to trace we think this can sometimes be the case….
Because it is not normal with a good bag of rye flour for something to go moldy so quickly.
So if this could be the case with you…throw away the bag asap and start over.
Good luck and happy baking!
Ed & Marieke
Sylvia Vervest says
Hi Marieke,
Me again :-), but don’t worry starter is alive and well. But I was going to make your Pain Rustique this weekend and when I got the starter out of the fridge there was a layer of what looked like water on top (think its called Hooch) I mixed it back in and then took about 30g out and refreshed it with 30g Rye & 30g water, will it be ok to make the poolish with it tomorrow night? Or do I now need to feed it for a couple of days more.
Thanks
Sylv
Anna says
Hi,
Using your method, I now want to feed what is left of my starter, which has been staying in the fridge all week.
I’m not sure if I put it right back in after putting water and rye in the jar, or if I need to wait untill it is active again and then put it back.
Also I have some trouble with the feeding time when taking some starter out of the fridge for baking. I got some culture out at 8 a.m. At noon it was triple its former size. By the time I wanted to make my poolish (8 p.m.) it was back at its original size. Can I still bake with it? How come it rises so fast and then caves in equally fast? The temperature is a steady 22 degrees Celsius.
Thanks!
Anna
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Anna,
No, you do not feed it again just before you store it in the fridge.
If you keep your culture in the fridge, refresh your culture at least every three weeks. If you want to bake, get it out one day in advance. If it has been left in the fridge for over a week you need to refresh / feed it first so it will be ready and active the following day.
I think your starter is very active and wants to be fed sooner rather than later. BTW The collapsing is normal, it will not stay high forever, it will collapse in a day or sooner like in your case. Also the wetter the more the tendency of collapsing. A good indication if feeding is called for is the smell. Fruity or yogurty is good to use, if this smell changes to something less fresh and fruity, more resembling ‘nail polish’ it is definitely time to feed your starter.
Anna says
Sorry, I don’t understand completely: when refreshing the culture without wanting to bake (every three weeks), I have to wait until it is active before putting the stash back in the fridge?
Does the early collapsing (a couple of hours after feeding) mean that I should begin baking sooner? (ore taking the starter out/feeding it later.)
You are right about the wetness: this is a starter with more water then flour. The other one is more stiff and collapses a few hours later.
Weekend Bakers says
Sorry if that was not clear. Before putting it in the fridge again you feed it the day before, wait a day for it to get active and then store it in the fridge.
Even if your starter has (recently of course, not days ago) collapsed you can still use it in your poolish. Rye does not contain much gluten so it doesn’t really matter if it is collapsed, it will still work.
Good luck with it!
Sonya Kanelstrand says
Thank you! In my desperation I threw out the starter, so I am starting over again today. I am using rye flour which seems to be very active in the first two days, doubling and even tripling, boasting beautiful bubbles, and a lot of them… Thank you for all your suggestions, I will go through the comments as well.
I hope third time will be lucky indeed!
Will keep you updated 🙂
Sonya Kanelstrand says
Hi Ed and Marieke,
I love to bake bread but so far have been only doing it with fresh or instant yeast, I followed your instructions and for a second time in a row my rye starter dies on the third day. It starts perfectly well, forms a lot of bubbles and on the even doubles on the second day. Then, when the third day comes and I take 2/3 of it and renew it just dies. I can see the water on top, and nothing happens. I am mixing it for 30 seconds, I am using clean spoons and clean cups to measure the flour and the water, I use lukewarm water…
I don’t have enough knowledge to find the reason by myself. I really hope you can help me out!
Thank you.
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Sonya,
We would suggest the following: If there is still some activity (some bubbles and still a pleasant smell) you should always just continue with the steps. If this does not work, and you think there is really no activity at all anymore, go back to day 2 and take it from there. If this fails too, throw away two third of the mixture and add 40 g of flour and 40 g of water. Make sure the environment for your starer is warm and wet enough and the consistency is like cake batter, thick but still easy to stir. If it still leads to nothing, you can also look at the flour itself (are you using wheat flour? because you mention the water on top). You see in our little clip that the rye we use is very active. We use organic whole rye flour from a mill and it seems to have a lot of natural yeast cells to get the starter going. Maybe changing flour type and /or brand would help too. You can also read the comments and tips above of other people on the subject, maybe you find some of them useful too.
Hope this helps and please do not give up yet….third time lucky 🙂
Greetings,
Ed & Marieke
Heidi says
Hi! Thank you for all the great information. I am on my second try at the rye starter. It’s on day 5 and based on the smell and all when I fed it last night, I was going to bake with it today. But when I opened it up just now, I smelled the nail polishy smell. So I stirred it and fed it and now it smells not so bad and fruitier. Do I have to throw it out, or can I try to use it in a couple of hours? I plan to feed the bread to my kids, so I want to make sure it’s not fermented improperly, but I also don’t want to throw out something I can work with. Thanks again!
Heidi
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Heidi,
We recognize the way you describe it. Sometimes on opening the jar we also get a faint nail polish smell. If that’s all it is and like you say after feeding and stirring the smell was replaced by a fruitier one, then you should be fine. When in doubt just feed it and refresh it for a couple of days extra. A sourdough culture can take up to two weeks to stabilize and get to its full potential.
It may also help to make the culture just a tiny bit more liquid, it should be a ‘cake batter’ consistency rather than a stiffer ‘cookie dough’ substance. We noticed that by keeping it in that state the chance of this nail polish smell is less.
Good luck with it and happy baking!
Marieke & Ed
Heidi says
Thank you for responding so quickly! I am really enjoying this website and this process of getting a feeling for the sourdough. I think it still is fine and I will see how it looks/smells tomorrow.
Thanks again,
Heidi
Sylvia Vervest says
Hi Ed & Marieke,
Yesterday was day 3 of my Rye Starter and befor I fed it for the 3rd time it was really active it had more than doubled in size and smelt quite nice. I through away 2 thirds of the starter and gave it 30ml water and 30g of Rye flour, I got up this morning and it has risen margenally but not much over the mark I made, there are bubbles and it still smells ok. It seems to me that it has stalled, I’ve read the previous mails over this problem and you recomend adding more starter to to give it more ‘food’. Can I do this without throwing 2 thirds away as there is only about a third in the jar at the moment and throwing that much away will leave me with hardly any.
On a funny note every time I look at my starter I think of Frank Oz’s comedy film ‘Little Shop Of Horrers’ (not sure If you’ve seen it) but the alien plant in the shop keeps saying to Rick Moranis ‘Feed Me Seymour Feed Me’ and the starter reminds me of that, execept I don’t have to feed it humans!! – just saying ;-)))
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Sylvia,
I would suggest scooping a bit from the top and then feeding it like you said. Sounds like all is still OK and you should just continue with the process.
Yes, we know about the Little Shop but have never seen it in full I must say. I have seen images of this talking plant.
If the culture starts talking and asking for humans please feel free to call us immediately :O !!!
Good luck with it!
Marieke
Sylvia Vervest says
Hi Marieke & Ed,
I started a new starter in tandem with the other one which just sat there and looked at me and refused to budge even after refreshing it it just refused to rise to the occasion and did not appear to be working for its food…Sooo with a heavy heart I Murdered it and it’s now in the great starter in the sky. However, the 2nd has not exactly risen to the occasion either but my patience has got better and it’s day 5 and it to seemed not to be doing much so this morning I got rid of 2/3s and fed it with 30g Rye and 30ml water the water was luke warm (30degrees a thought it might be feeling the cold). Again the little bugger just sat there looking at me again and this afternoon I took matters into my own hands and I gave it 20ml more water as it did look a little on the thick side. After about an hour or so it has not risen but it is bubbling away very nicely and smells fruity.
My question is given that its day 5 and it should not be fed now and just rested is that what I should do, let little Quatermass 2 have a rest?
Just re read the post and I sound as mad as a hatter…but I can assure you normal service will be resumed as soon as the starter starts. Also you’ve probably gathered I not the most patient of people. 😉
Thanks for your patience though 🙂
Sylv.
Weekend Bakers says
Hallo Anna,
Het klopt inderdaad wat je als eerste zegt, maar je hoeft wat betreft het toevoegen van gelijke delen, niet perse roggemeel te gebruiken, je kunt hiervoor elk meel of elke bloem gebruiken waarmee je je brood wilt maken (alleen je roggecultuur, die je aan je voordeeg dat dan 12 uur staat toevoegt, is dan van rogge, het voordeeg zelf kan met name ook uit bv tarwe of spelt bestaan.
Ik stuur je via mail nog wat instructies toe.
Happy Baking,
Marieke
Anna says
Goedemiddag!
Ik heb een vraagje over het gebruik van de desemstarter. Ben in verwarring over het koelkastgedeelte.
Als je starter actief is, klopt dan het volgende:
Je pakt er ‘s avonds een hoeveelheid van, voegt daar gelijke delen water en roggemeel aan toe. Dat laat je 12 uur staan op kamertemperatuur. De volgende ochtend kun je daarmee bakken.
De rest van de starter zet je in de koelkast, ook ververst. De volgende keer dat je wilt bakken haal je er weer een gedeelte eruit, etc, zie boven. En ververs je ook weer de voorraad die in de koelkast gaat.
Of kan het alleen andersom. Dus dat je voor je wilt bakken eerst alles in je pot ververst, het geheel gaat weer in de koelkast terug en de volgende ochtend haal je eruit wat je wilt gebruiken.
Groet,
Anna
Sylvia Vervest says
Hi Marieke,
Thanks for that, must admit I felt a bit stupid asking that but I’ve been so frustrated with sourdough bread making and I really wanted to follow everything to the T and I did think it was for your USA followers. I have been making spelt bread and basic wheat bread since I started making bread (about a month or so ago) and the results are great but sourdough bread seems to elude me for some reason. I’m off to the Zandhaas later this week and I’ll pick up some organic Rye flour (Roggameel?!) as well. BTW the organic wheat flour from there is just the best thing ‘since sliced bread’ – pardon the pun 🙂
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Sylvia,
Great to hear you like the flour! The thing to ask for is EKO (stands for organic) roggemeel. I hope by using this flour your frustrations with sourdough will come to an end. Next to the right flour for your starter culture it is also important to keep in mind that making sourdough bread takes time (about twice as long as yeast bread you could say) and it is really important to have your dough at the right temperature (24-25 C) otherwise it will seem like nothing is happening with your dough. (Maybe you have seen our tips on dough temperature: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…mperature/).
Good luck with it and keep us posted?!
Marieke
Sylvia Vervest says
Hi
After two disasters with a wheat sourdough starter I am now going to try your Rye starter and if that doesn’t work I’ll throw in the towel (well maybe not that quick – lol). I do, however, have a question, you mentioned about using mineral water if tap water has a lot of chlorine in it. Being a Brit lIving in The Netherlands I think the water here is not chlorinated (although I could be wrong!) but to avoid any problems would it be prudent to use mineral water.
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Sylvia,
I can assure you it is not at all necessary to use mineral water, the tap water here is fine. It is mentioned for people who live in areas where there is a lot of chlorine in the water (parts of the USA for example). We use tap water for our culture too.
Hope the rye will bring you success. Do not give up yet! Use organic whole rye for the starter (we use De Zandhaas), it will create the best conditions for an active starter.
Good luck with it, otherwise, if and when you visit us, we will help you by showing what we do.
Marieke
Ben says
Hi,
I’m a new comer to the world of baking and have a quick question on starter volumes. In your guide above, after doing the maths at the end of day 4 you’d only have around 50g of starter. After this you say let it rest for a few days to develop. But what is the process when you need a large amount for a recipe? I’ve read a few that require 100g or even up to 200g. Is the below what you would do for a recipe that requires 100g of starter:
– throw away 2/3 (33g) of your 50g starter that you’ve developed, then add 133g of flour and water.
from this point i’m not sure how long you’d need to leave this new amount of starter before you used it, as you’ve really diluted it and don’t understand how long the new flour you add takes to develop the flavour that the starter has in it. But after x amount of time you’d then take the 100g need and have the original 50g left over to keep and store.
Sorry if the answer is obvious – and any help on this is greatly appreciated. Plus I love the website and have learnt so much from it already.
Here’s to 2013 being the year of the bread !!!!
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Ben,
There seem to be two schools of thought when it comes to using sourdough cultures in recipes for bread making. One tells you to refresh your starter the day before baking and add a large amount of this starter to your final dough on baking day. The second tells you to build a poolish by using a small amount of sourdough added to equal amounts of flour and water and let it ferment (ripe) for usually around 12 hours. It more or less comes down to the same result as in the first method you use your starter as a poolish but the downside of this is you have to maintain a large amount of starter. The second method you maintain a small amount and let it increase in size the day before baking in a separate container. With this second method you do not have to throw away as much starter when you refresh (feed/ maintain) it.
This is also why most of our recipes use this method that tells you to build a poolish type preferment with a small amount of culture.
Another advantage of this method is you can use a rye starter (easier to maintain) with regular white sourdough loaves, as the amount of rye used is so small you will (almost) not notice it in the final bread.
Hope this helps and wishing you lots of happy baking moments in 2013!
Ed & Marieke
Ben says
Thanks for the advice guys. have already started a new starter following your guide above. looking forward to the results this weekend!
Weekend Bakers says
Let us know how it goes!
Ben says
Hi guys,
Starters are going really well, and hope to try out some of your recipes this weekend. One question though. You mention that instead of a large amount of starter you can build the same amount of poolish and use this instead. If this is the case is there a general way to calculate how you convert a recipe that includes a large starter amount to one that would use a poolish? An example recipe I have for pain de campagne is:
650g bread flour
100g rye flour
500g sourdough starter
etc
this is just one example but would like to know what you’d do for any recipes you come across and you want to substitute starter for poolish.
thanks,
Ben
Weekend Bakers says
As a rule of thumb you can use 15 g sourdough culture to 100 g flour used to make a sourdough starter. After mixing your starter it needs about 12 hours (usually overnight) to become active.
Ed
Adam says
theinversecook.wordpress.com/2007/…auernbrot/
Adam says
I am new to this. I can make a good yeast / preferment white country bread. My goal, though, is to make this German bread linked below. I don’t know how to calculate hydration percentages. Can I achieve 133% with this recipe of yours? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Happy New Year! Adam
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Adam,
Baker’s percent(ingredient) = 100% × ingredient mass⁄flour mass
Our starter culture uses equal parts water and flour so it is 100%
The 133% in the recipe you want to make means it is wetter than our starter.
This is how you calculate the ratio
The 80 g culture is 100 parts flour and 133 parts water = 233 parts in total.
80 / 233 parts x 100 = 34.33 g flour and 80 – 34.33= 45.66 g water
So you could just add about 10 ml water to the recipe and then all will be fine!
Good luck with the recipe, it sounds and looks delicious!
Happy Baking and Happy New Year!
Marieke & Ed
Adrian says
Hi Ed and Marieke
I’m very new to sourdough and bread baking in general but ever since I tasted the sourdough baguette at a local restaurant I’ve put it down at the top of my to-bake list. I’m considering of purchasing the sourdough starter from your weekend baking shop but as it’s a rye starter I wonder if it can be used for baking baguettes and other recipes that call for a white flour starter?
Many thanks and I hope to try your 80% hydration baguette one more time in the coming week!
Adrian
gregory says
Well, it all got eaten. So it must have been pretty good. Thanks for the help. I will keep experimenting and baking.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Weekend Bakers says
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your family too Gregory, and lots of baking joy!
Ed & Marieke
gregory says
Hello weekend bakers,
This question is more about baking bread than about starter. Your tips on the starter were great and really helped me get it going. I used it for a recipe from the book “Healing with Whole Foods.” The recipe was for Black Rye Bread. Just starter, rye, water, and a little salt. No sweetener or anything. Maybe a little too healthy.
My question is about what it should taste like. I’ve never had rye sourdough before. It tastes like rye, but I’m disappointed that it didn’t get that tangy sour taste that most wheat sourdoughs get. Should it get sour, even with 100% rye flour?
Thanks!
Weekend Bakers says
Hard to say. It really depends on the recipe and we do not know the recipe you used. However, the acid producing bacteria in your sourdough culture need lots and lots of hours to produce enough acid before you can taste it. That is why San Fransisco sourdough bakers have bulk fermenting times of 12 hours plus+ and use refrigerators to stretch those times further to 24 hours or more. So rye sourdough can get that tang, but you need to find the right recipe with the right proofing times.
Thanks for all your kind words and good luck with the rye bread project.
Ed & Marieke
Marie says
Thanks for your reply. I made the bread from blargh.stderr.net/2009/09/16/danish-ryebread-.Rugbrod. It has a starter but uses a little bit of yeast so it doesn’t have much of a sourdough taste. It did work well, however. I think i will search for a recipe with a true sourdough instead of tinkering with this one . Thanks, again.
Marie says
Hi,
How much of the starter would I use to make Rugbrod? This is a Danish type of rye bread, like German pumpernickle. It is a very large loaf – 1kg of rye flour plus 200 grams of rye kernals.
Weekend Bakers says
It depends on the recipe. If it uses a poolish or preferment in which you put the starter you would need around 30 g per 500 g flour. If you don’t use a poolish or preferment you would need between 200 g and 300 g active starter. But note that simply changing a yeast based recipe to sourdough, without changing timings and techniques will not immediately result in a good loaf the first time. We would suggest you stick to a good / proven sourdough based rugbrod recipe for the best result. We have not made the original rugbrod ourselves. We do have a favorite rye bread recipe, it is a so called ‘hybrid’ version because it uses the rye starter plus a tiny amount of yeast in the last stage of this three stage recipe: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…h-raisins/. Our other recipe, a very dark and moist rye bread, that uses no starter or yeast at all and is ‘cooked’ for 10 hours is also very much worth a try for true rye lovers. You can find it here: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…rye-bread/
Good luck with the baking,
Ed & Marieke
Olga says
Hoi Ed en Marieke,
Ik heb een vraag over de hoeveelheid van dit zuurdesem dat je moet gebruiken in een recept. In de meeste recepten wordt ‘normale’ instant gist gebruikt. Kan ik dit ook vervangen door de rogge zuurdesem? En zo ja, hoeveel van dit desem gebruik je dan (bijv. per gram instant gist)? Is daar een handvat voor?
Alvast bedankt.
Groetjes,
Olga
Weekend Bakers says
Hoi Olga,
Je kunt helaas niet zomaar gist vervangen door zuurdesem en verder gewoon het recept volgen. Desem heeft namelijk veel meer tijd nodig om tot ontwikkeling te komen. Het werkt het beste om gewoon een goed desemrecept te nemen omdat daarvan alle tijden en methodes kloppen (bv de pain naturel: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…n-naturel/ of de zuurdesem mini boules: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…i-boulles/). Je kunt een gistrecept wel bewerken zodat het een desemrecept wordt. Je moet dan altijd met een voordeeg werken om de boel op gang te brengen. Gemiddeld zit er in een desembrood dat op deze manier wordt gemaakt ongeveer 15 g desem per brood. Dan heb je ook nog de hybride versie (zoals de pain rustique: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…-rustique/) waarbij je het toegevoegde desem meer voor de smaak gebruikt en het gist toevoegt om het hele proces meer snelheid te geven. Bij al deze methodes, gist, desem of hydride, krijg je ook duidelijk een ander type brood (korst, kruim, smaak).
Groetjes en happy baking weekend!
Marieke & Ed
Olga says
Super bedankt voor je reactie. Ik wilde eigenlijk een speltvolkorenbrood maken met de roggedesem, maar ik kon er nergens een recept van vinden, vandaar mijn vraag. Ik ga het eens met de 15 gram desem proberen en een voordeegje maken.
Groetjes,
Olga
Weekend Bakers says
Je kunt dan bijvoorbeeld dit brood als uitgangspunt nemen: www.weekendbakery.com/posts…vain-loaf/
Ook voor de rijstijden (let ook op de temperatuur van water dat je toevoegt en van het deeg, dat moet idealiter wel rond de 24 C zitten om met deze rijstijden te kunnen werken, anders kan het gerust nog veel langer duren.
Hoop dat er wat moois uit komt!
Marieke
Olga says
Ja super, dat ga ik van de week proberen te maken.
Bedankt voor de tip!
Groetjes,
Olga
Stash Bragiel says
Hi,
if you are having problems with your sourdough starter failing feed it with 100ml of “unsweetened pine-apple juice. This will help with the bad bacteria. Try it!
jo says
Hi,
What texture should the starter be at the beginning? Mine is extremely thick & dry, like dough, and stuck to the spoon.
jo says
Never mind! Just read the comments again & found my answer!
Weekend Bakers says
OK very good! We always aim for a ‘moist paste’ consistency.
Good luck with it!
Marieke
Kat says
Hey there…hoping you can help. I’m struggling with my starter. All was going well and on day 3 it rose a little and had some bubbles. I carried on following instructions and since then it has had no life in it. I’m using mineral water and warming it to about 36c but room is about 18c. I am now on day 9!
Anyway….do I carry on or start over? What might I be doing wrong? I’m so looking forward to doing some baking baking! Help!
Thanks.
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Kat,
Our first thought are your water is too warm, so the suggestion is to use water of 30C at the most. Plus (provided you are not already doing this of course) we would recommend looking at your flour. Use organic (preferably wholegrain rye) flour because it gives you the greatest chance of success, change brands to see if this helps.
But first, start over again and lower the temperature of the water so the temp for the yeast cells will be more comfortable.
Another thing you can try in combination with this is finding a spot in the house that is slightly warmer (20-21C).
Good luck with it!
Ed and Marieke
Oleg says
Ed & Marieke,
One more question about teh starter.
The starter is great and I am really happy with it, but I have a question about it usage.
Should I use it only when I bake rye bread or can use with wheat bread as well?
Right now I am thinking about baking “Poilâne Loaf” and wonder if I have to convert this rye starter into wheat starter? I read how to do it and it should not be a problem, but I am still wonder if I can still use rye starter for non-rye bread.
Thanks a lot,
Oleg
Weekend Bakers says
You can use your starter for any bread you like, also wheat or spelt. There is no conversion needed! We use our rye starter all the time for all kinds of bread. The only reason for not using a rye starter would be if you really would not want any rye in your bread. But the amount compared to the loaf is so small, (plus in your loaf there will probably be whole grain wheat and maybe some additional rye anyway) that you will not even notice any difference using a wheat or rye starter.
Hope your loaf will be great!
Marieke & Ed
Oleg says
Dear Ed & Marieke,
Let me notice once again, that you have a great website! I think the best all around about bakery!!!
A quick question about starter and temperature.
It’s very humid and hot (29C) in Chicago now, so the question is will I still be able to make the Rye Sourdough Starter or should I wait for fall time when temperature drops?
Thanks a lot and best wishes!!!
Oleg
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Oleg,
You do not have to wait. It may be that because of the temperature your culture will be a little bit more active and you have to feed it a bit sooner than the average times given in the instructions. You can keep it in a place that is relatively the coolest in your home maybe.
Good luck,
Ed & Marieke
Oleg says
Ed & Marieke,
Thanks a lot for your answer!!!
Actually whatever I thought is dead starter started raise almost on my eyes when I added flour/water. Now it looks/smells perfect, but I have to feed it every 12 hours.
Can I ask you a question about “how to maintain your starter” part, please?
In your update you wrote “after feeding, I wait for the starter to double or triple in size and then I store it in the refrigerator with the lit on.” Do you feed it before put into the frige? Do you need to feed it when you take it out of the frige or you can use it right away?
Thank a lot!!!
Oleg
P.S. This weekend wil be my “Bake a Miche” day
Weekend Bakers says
Hi Oleg,
Great to hear! To answer your question: No, you do not feed it again just before you store it in the fridge.
If you keep your culture in the fridge, refresh your culture at least every three weeks. If you want to bake, get it out one day in advance. If it has been left in the fridge for over a week you need to refresh / feed it first so it will be ready and active the following day.
Hope the miche baking will go great. Allow enough time for the resting, proofing and baking, you must not be in a hurry with a miche! But if it is still as hot as a while ago, the proofing will probably also go rather fast, like with your starter.
Have a great baking weekend,
Ed & Marieke
Wiley says
Hello,
Thanks for your website; it’s very helpful.
This is day 3 of my first effort at making starter, using an organic rye flour. All seemed as you describe on the first day. After feeding on day 2 there was a rapid increase in activity and after about 6 hours the volume had increased nearly 4 times. It was nearly overflowing the jar so I shook it and it collapsed back to near its starting volume. Then I left it for the remainder of the 24 hour period, and it didn’t rise again.
Now on day 3, it’s about 6 hours after I removed half of the batch and fed the remainder, and there has been very little rise, just enough to be noticeable. After reading through the comments here, I’m guessing that since it was so active yesterday I should have fed it again after it collapsed instead of waiting the full 24 hours, which is what I’ll try if the same thing happens in the future. Since there’s still some activity I’ll continue working with this batch and see how it goes.
Again, the info. on your site is much appreciated.
Weekend Bakers says
Hello Wiley,
Thanks! I think your analyses is pretty accurate and you should just continue. I think your starter is very active and wants to be fed sooner rather than later. BTW The collapsing is normal, it will not stay high forever, it will collapse in a day or sooner like in your case. Also the wetter the more the tendency of collapsing. Just keep going, do not stop or start over just because you think nothing much is happening anymore. Hope it works out!
Ed
smokehag says
Love your starter. Recommend it on my blog as its nice and simple and not confusing for beginners.
Weekend Bakers says
Thanks for recommending us, much appreciated! Keep up the good bready work!
Marieke